Atheist Girl

The Atheist Kurdish Girl. Helping to build a world free of superstitions.

About Me

Name: Roya
Home: sydney, Australia
About Me: I went from looking for god to finding him evil to finding he does not exist, all before turning 14. Now, I can proudly say, I'm a libertarian, an anarchist, and a free thinker.
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    The War on Iraq must go on!
    Sunday, August 13, 2006
    During the last month, my views have changed radically about Iraq. I can actually say that I have returned to my previous view that war on Iraq was a good thing. There is a few reasons for this and I'll explain why.
    Firstly, I don't believe that the war on Iraq has been responsible for the hatred of US among Muslims. Muslims have always hated US and especially hate the Jews. This hatred stems from the religion of Islam itself. I should know better as I had been a member of terrorist organisation (Basij) myself in Iran (aged 11). All we learned was hatred toward non-believers when we were studying Islam. This link to Islam itself became clear cut for me last week when in discussion with an old Arab friend of mine, he refered to the quran and said that even the stones and trees would start to talk and say to Arabs that there is a Jew behind me come and kill him. He was not even ashamed of what he was saying. This wasn't something I hadn't heard before but what was the triggering point for me was when I asked him about the stupidity of Hizbullah to think that they can hurt Israel. He laughed and said that the Muslims in a battle(I can't remember the name) had fought more than 100 000 strong troup with just 10 000 soldiers. He then refered to Iraq and said that the mighty US forces cannot defeat the Muslims. This is something that I hadn't heard in Australia at all. I remember learning about it in Iran and I remember the glorification of the fighters, and how somehow god made the heart of the enemies of the Muslims to be filled with fear. We also learned about the glorious Khalifa of the Shia's that died along with the rest of his 72 followers who were mainly families consisting of women and children and elderly because he refused to give into his enemies requests, that could have saved their lives as had been promised. What we see in Leb is the same thing. they don't care if all of their own people dies like their own hero, the second Khalifa of Shias it is seen as a sign of strength.
    Basically any defeat in WAR ON TERROR is a WIN FOR ISLAMO-FACISTS.
    I also liked the clip that Atheist Jew put on his blog ( I watched half of it :) a few days ago). In fact there was nothing new for me in it that I didn't know before. I myself witnessed the brainwashing of children by the Islamists. This was before Iraq, before the new Leb-Israeli conflict, before Afghanistan. What the clip did for me was to take what was in the back of my mind and memory for so long into my attention and make everything clear. Muslims didn't start hating US or the Jews after 9/11 they hated them since Islam has existed. The INFIDEL US is an enemy of Muslims not because of their foreign policy but for the simple fact that they are not muslims. We had muslim cleric comming to our AUSTRALIAN school (when I was in my hast year of high school) and talking about the australian girls and refering to them as whores and sluts. He also talked about how he was searched in the airport because he had a beard and saw that as discrimination. Basically they hate anything they percieve as as unIslamic culture.
    Islam clearly justifies kiling non-muslims and even glorifies it. For this reason I really think xianity is less harmless than Islam (at least for now). So even if the xians think that a win in Iraq shows that god is in their side then be it. Islamic Facism has 1 billion supporters but xian fundies do not have the mass support that the Islamic madness has and are definitely do not see killing as an enjoyabe sport.
    I also think that we can't avoid war with Isalm. This is going to become much bigger then it is now, but it has to happen if we are to get rid o religious stupidity. Firstly, the moslims werent going to stop after 9/11 and whether there was going to be war on Iraq or not there would have been fighting in somewhere esle. Secondly, I believe, a war between Islam and xianity is inevitable. Both are bizzziiiiih recruiting followers. Muslims recruit suicidebombers and xians the politicians. Both want to dominate the world so a crash (if the war of Iraq is not one) is inevitabe. Thirdly, I think this is the best way to get rid of religion ones and for all. The two world wars were needed in order for a rapid acceleration in international cooperations and multilateral treaties that dramatically reduced the number of wars in world. The dark ages was needed to show that religion should not be mixed with government and now similarly, a war between religions is needed to show that just having separation of religion from the state is not enough and religion needs to be eradicated.
    Another reason for my support for war on Iraq is that, I as a Kurd am really scared of Arabs. I know if the US gets out of Iraq the Arabs are going to turn on us and take away any freedom that we enjoy now. The War on Iraq has helped the Economy of Kurdistan alot. Kurds, a nation that is one the the most secular muslim country in the Mid-east, pro-US and pro-Israel is especially important for the war on Islamo-Facism. Just look that the post by a Kurdish Blogger. Where can you see that much Pro-Israeli expressions anywhere in the mid-east? I challenge you to find me one example.
    I believe an independent Kurdistan can be in the interest of both US and Israel. For US we would be the only muslim nation to support them unconditionally unlike Turkey and for Israel we can be a cheap supplier of Oil. The Kurds and Israelis have a lot in common. Neither of the two countries has friendly neighbours. Both fear Islamists and have Arabs as their common enemy. And their land is in constant attack by the outsiders. I think Israel is going to be an important friend of Kurds. Kurds do need America and Israel for their survival whether they like it or not.

    By the way, I won't be posting much as I think I need to focus on my studies.
    posted by Roya @ 12:41 AM  
    • At 13/8/06 5:13 AM, Blogger Bacon Eating Atheist Jew said…

      Interesting post. I really don't know much about the Kurds. I don't think Canadians or Americans are very knowledgable about them. I think I might have to do some research on this.

      Good to see you post again, but don't stop because of your studies. Lots of people like your blog.

      Oh, and I'll give you a hint on how to study and retain information for university tests. Read for 20 minutes, then do something totally different for 10-15 minutes, then go back to your reading for another 20 minutes, and then take another 10-15 minute break from reading...and so on.

    • At 13/8/06 7:32 AM, Blogger doshar said…

      dear roya,

      reading your post... I understand that there is much in these arabic states that I do not know, even though I am from one myself (Egypt).

      I am sorry that you have learnt all these things about Islam so early in life to the extent that it would drive you away. Actually.... I have never been taught to hate people of different religions... in fact I have been taught to be civil and fair and loving in general and with others. in fact there was no "how to treat non beleivers" lesson.... because it was not an issue.. never even thought that we should treat them any differently from muslims.

      I understand that Kurds have been mistreated under Saddam rule, though I have to admit that I am not that knowledgable about it... but it is not under Islamic values that he operated... even if he had claimed that.

      I really understand that maybe your teachings have not shown you the best side (or even the true sides) of Islam... I am not here to try to convert you or anything... I just feel that maybe you never really knew the tolerant side if Islam.

      In any case, if you have any questions for me let me know...

    • At 13/8/06 8:11 AM, Anonymous bernarda said…

      The Kurds are living in their land. They have nothing in common with the judeo-nazi Israelis who are living on Palestinian land which they have stolen.

      As for a-theistjew, he doesn't know much about anything, but he does blindly support zionist terrorism and war crimes against the Palestinians and the Lebanese.

      If you are to make a comparison, it should be that the Israelis are Saddam and the Palestinians are the Kurds.

      The war in Iraq is stupid. It was caused by the fascist Republican and neo-con Chickenhawks who are only to happy to have other people die for their sick ideology. Of course these Chickenhawks never get near the battle themselves.

      They are all Vietnam draft-dodgers and/or deserters like Bush.

    • At 13/8/06 10:14 PM, Blogger Roya said…

      Heres another article about Jews and Kurds in The Washington Monthly.

      The thing is that the Kurds like the way Israel has managed to build a successful state among all those enemies srounding them.

    • At 13/8/06 10:35 PM, Blogger Steve said…

      trivia question Roya: Who killed more Jews in the 20th century, Muslims, or Westerners?

      For the answer, ask Hitler.

      Its very sad that there's so little context in this article for such bold claims about Islam, and Islamists. There's no mention of the fact that the US was funding many militant Islamic groups throughout the cold war against the Soviets, and that part of their organization and strength has come at the behest of western intelligence services, eager to destabilize soviet-controlled central asia.

      But most of all Roya, I agree with you, Iran is a fucked up country that is out of whack with the rest of the world, and even its own people. The difference between us, is you place all the blame for that on Islam, and I look a little closer at the 1953 coupe against Dr. Mossodaq, and the installation of a man whose own father, Reza Khan, feared for his nation if he ever ruled. I am truly sorry that the US installed a man who did not even speak Farsi at cabinet meetings, but French, and who destroyed all his secular opposition in Parliament, leaving only the religious groups like Khomeini, so that when his inevitable fall came the militant Muslims came to power.

      You of course do know that it was not just Khomeini who hated the Shah, but also Communists, Feminists, and every other "ist" who had faced the brutality of SAVAK.

      Mostly though, I'm sorry that you don't see that the war in Iraq is strengthening the hand of Shia's and the power of Iran in the region. You oppose Islam, but you want to the US to create a new Islamic state in Iraq, where it was once secular Ba'athist. How and atheist can be for the formation of an Islamic constitution in Iraq, which derives its laws in part from the Qur'an (yes, maybe you should actually read the constitution the US helped draft for Iraqi's, and then compare it to Saddam's rule)

      Maybe you should stop reading history based on childhood experiences, and start objectively studying it.

    • At 13/8/06 11:30 PM, Blogger Roya said…

      Steve, your thinking is exactly what I always have dispiced. That is to bring up the past which is not relevent.
      The muslims use the excuse that the jews did wrong and therefore god through them from Israel and use this to justify getting rid of Israel.
      Should I bring up the past that it was the Muslim who first attacked Iran and Muslimised us? Should I say that because of this we should F*** them for F***ing us?
      If muslims use the analogy that Jews came and take our their land, well I can use the past and say that It was the land of jews, so they had no right to settle there in the first place. If I go to holiday somewhere should you come and live in my land. this sound stupid but not any different than what you say.
      Westerners are not denying what they did to jews and in fact they always say sorry.
      Muslims however do deny the wrong doing from their sides. Hizbullah in Iran has killed thousands of Kurds in the early days of revolution. Does anyone say anything about that?
      And please stop this stupid idea of yours (like other westerners who think they know every thing about iran), that Iran would have been great if Dr. Mossodaq had stayed in power. Iran was nothing without America. It was because of them that Iran became a regional power. Another thing please do not talk wrong of Shah. I love him to bits. I do sometimes get pissed off at him for the wrong directions he took but he did great for Iran if people could have understand that. I may have done the same if I was in his place. Nobody thought that the Mullahs are going to get power. You are talking after the revolution not before it and so you (the know-it-all) would have not predicted such a thing too.
      Shah is not responsible for what happened after him. He thought that the communs were the threat, so he did what was HE thought to be the best.
      Anyways what about Khomeini who was not even an Iranian? Hah? He may not have known more than 200 persian words. He was mix of Indian mother and English Father.

      "Maybe you should stop reading history based on childhood experiences, and start objectively studying it."
      Stop talking shit. You sound like the guy I saw at Uni advertising about how the murder jews are killing INACENT MUSLIM LEBS and literaly saying that Jews were responsible for all the conflict in mid-east.
      I don't care if US has funded this or that terrorist organisation. Have you heard of realpolitik? They are looking for their interest, right? But look at the Arabs. Do they work for their best self interests? No!!! They are not smart so I hate them. fighting America is not in my interest so I don't like people who talk of such acts. I don't want my people be stupid like that. You got that? If there was a Kurd who incouraged the Kurds to rise up against the Turks, or americans I would want them to get killed because many of my people would have been killed as well. I was surpriced at how rational Kurds have become. I never have thought that the kurdish leaders have come to the understanding that fighting is not in the best interest of the Kurds.
      Arabs however, because they use the quran are stupid and I beieve they are far more dangerous than anyone who just looks for their self interest.
      It is hard to reason with irrational people. I do not think that America is pro-kurds but if we are able to show them that it is in their interest then as rational people (US), we the kurds are more likely to get their support. Got that? look at the Shia's of Iraq. They did what was in their best interest by accepting the new government but the atupid Alqaeda who if they had the interest of muslims intheir heart would have been happy that there was going to be an islamic country but got upset because they saw them as collaboraters with US and for such irrational reason they are attacking them.
      We have a saying that an irrational friend is far more to be feared than a rational enemy.

    • At 13/8/06 11:44 PM, Blogger Roya said…

      Another thing I should mention is that as a GIRL, I care about the femalecommunity. A women is far more likely to be harmed by people she knows. Islam creates a situation that such act against women is far more acceptable. Therefore whoever incourages Islam is my enemy and Muslims are my enemy. History is NOT just about males. The FEMALE history is very depressing under the reign of Islam and therefore it is in my interest as a women to get rid of Islam so such acts would not happen anymore to any kurdish WOMAN.

    • At 14/8/06 12:05 AM, Blogger Steve said…

      ok... I can't reply to so much ramblings in your first reply, but if you oppose Islam, why do you support the Islamic state in Iraq that the US is helping to establish?

      And again I challenge you to read the Iraqi constitution, established by US support, and what it says about Islam. I see a huge inconsistancy and hypocracy between your opposition to Islam, and your support of the war in Iraq.

    • At 14/8/06 12:08 AM, Blogger Steve said…

      Take a look Roya, Article II, section A of the New Iraqi constitution "Article 2:

      First: Islam is the official religion of the State and it is a fundamental source of legislation:

      A. No law that contradicts the established provisions of Islam may be established."

      is it just me, or is your ENTIRE foot in your mouth right now, Roya?

    • At 14/8/06 12:27 AM, Blogger Roya said…

      LOL, sorry, I think I should have writen in my post that I truely believe that we have the biggest chance of ever having a state of our own. If the state of civil war in Iraq continue and excalate then partition of Iraq is not far from reality. There are Americans such as Joe Bidan (D) are in favor of partition and in long term there are going to be more. There are even military generals calling for partition of Iraq.
      I don't think Syria, Iran and Turkey are much of a threat if US is in infavor. This also needs a democrat win in Nov 08.
      It may seem very far fetched but all the nessecery means for it is there. Two years ago I would have laughed at anyone suggesting there is even a blink possibility for such a thing. It takes time though. Afew years of civil war. :)

    • At 14/8/06 12:30 AM, Blogger Roya said…

      Sorry. I'm not a good writer but I'm sure I was able to ommunicate what I ment.

    • At 14/8/06 4:05 AM, Blogger Bacon Eating Atheist Jew said…

      Roya, thanks. I've done a little research on the subject, and it would be great if the Kurds got a partitioned state.
      I'm sure they would even allow Christians and Jews there, but would have a big problem with Arabs. Kurds are very much like Jews, because they have different beliefs it seems, and are Kurds by ethnicity. So one could easily be an Atheist Kurd:)

      I notice how you destroyed Steven here. However, as usual he ignored most of your great points and spun your words on one subject. He does this all the time. He is not up for intellectual debate. Sorry that Bernarda the anti-semite woman from France found your blog, but I purposely linked it at Steven's Jihadist apology blog.

      Again, good work in exposing Steve's blame game contention for what it is.

      I found this on Jews and Kurds and it confirms what you are saying.

    • At 14/8/06 1:09 PM, Anonymous bernarda said…

      a-theist jew has no knowledge--as he says, he hasn't read a book since college. Here is a perception of the real situation following the nazi Israeli attack on Lebanon.

    • At 16/8/06 4:23 AM, Blogger Roya said…

      Well at least Amnesty International does recognise the WAR CRIMES by LEBS.

      Civilians in Northern Israel have been subjected to continuous rocket attacks from Hizbullah who have fired an average of one hundred (100) rockets each day into the area, hitting the city of Haifa and towns of Nahariya, Acre, Carmiel, Kiryat Shmona, and others. There is solid evidence that many of these attacks have been deliberately targeted at civilian buildings and residential areas. According to the information gathered by Amnesty International's delegates, some of the rockets carried warheads containing hard metal ball bearings, which have no apparent purpose other than to inflict death and severe injury to persons in the vicinity of the strike. At least 39 civilians in Israel have been killed and several hundred injured in these attacks. The daily barrage of rockets has affected virtually every aspect of civilian life in the northern areas of Israel, including access to medical care, food and shelter. Tens of thousands of residents have already fled from the north and most of those who are left are forced to spend much of their time in shelters.

      This deliberate targeting of rockets on civilian areas constitutes a direct attack on the civilian population that is unlawful and amounts to a prima facie war crime.

    • At 16/8/06 4:30 AM, Blogger Roya said…

      The web address you have given is from THE RADICAL LEFT. They aknowledge themselves that they are RADICAL. LMAO!!!

      We all know what they stand for. It's "IGNORANCE".

      Do not forget who started the war. It tells alot about who is the aggressor and who is the defencive one. HEHE

    • At 19/8/06 6:04 PM, Blogger Steve said…

      roya, they title themselves "The Radical Left" to be sarcastic.

      Ignorance would be someone who pretends like the 40-50 innocent people killed at Qana by an Israeli airstrike are aggressors, but the people dropping the bombs are just being defensive.


    • At 20/8/06 5:54 AM, Blogger Roya said…

      Steve I see hezbullah as being responsible either way. It is the party of God and they are fighting for god not their people.

      When they came and burned down villages in kurdistan and killed thousands of kurds, (when the Kurds rebelled in the early years of revolution), were we aggressors too?

    • At 20/8/06 9:27 AM, Blogger Stardust1954 said…

      This is a bit off to the side of the discussion at hand, but I felt compelled to post a comment.

      First of all, I consider myself to be a very liberal-minded independent. For the life of me, I cannot understand how people living in free nations can sympathize and defend radical islam and make excuses for their violent actions. Interesting how they defend and make excuses for radical islamists and terrorists while in the safety and protection of their FREE nations or societies! We would never tolerate it or make excuses for radical xianity.

      Like Roya, I also cannot defend people who oppress and victimize women under any circumstances. (And if someone tells me "well look at what goes on in Africa and other places...just because it happens somewhere else with no action against it, does not justify the violence I am referring to from radical islam.)

      They are, as you said Roya, oppressive of women (which is overlooked again and again by the radical left), and islam teaches to hate westerners no matter how "peaceful" some muslims proclaim to be...and ironically, radical muslim groups use their "peaceful" religious beliefs as justification for the most cruel and violent acts. They wish to destroy all that we hold dear. If we gave them every penny we have, they will still want to destroy us for simply being non-muslim and rejecting the religion of Islam and Allah.

      These beliefs are deeply imbedded in their minds. At Apostates of Islam website (by ex-Muslims), there is an article and video that shows what this religion is. The video is of a stoning in Iran of two people who were merely accused of adultery -- loving each other. This ancient and barbaric thinking must be changed...or at least we can try to change it for the sake of humanity. Stoning to death is still carried out in the current era, in Iran and was carried out in the previous Taliban-ruled Afghanistan.

      Video of Stoning to Death

      Warning...this is EXTREMELY GRAPHIC. It disturbs me very much and my heart breaks for the victims. And even though the U.S.A. has her problems, I don't look at trying to civilize barbaric people as a bad thing. I also feel extremely fortunate to live here in the U.S.A and not in some muslim land forced to wear the hijab or burqa of oppressed women or having to see my daughter be stoned to death after being accused of having premarital sex.
      Stop Stoning Now

    • At 20/8/06 11:55 PM, Blogger Steve said…

      Stardust, I don't think you like to read anything I have to say, and I won't waste any more time debating you guys on this blog, where it seems people are afraid to think of the silly ABSURD possibility that the US has in any way fueled militant Islam. You talk about stoning women to death Stardust, but its funny how you neglect to mention that the US supports most of those puppet regimes, and in fact the west helped set them up after the British mandate.

      I have a more detailed reply to your post on my own blog. Read it if you wish.

    • At 21/8/06 2:21 AM, Blogger Roya said…

      Steve, it's your choice. And I don't think you ever liked what others had to say either. :)

    • At 21/8/06 3:24 AM, Blogger Bacon Eating Atheist Jew said…

      The US helped fuel almost every country on this planet in recent history, but it is only Islamics who stone women.
      Steve seems to be blaming stonings on the US. Yes, that is ABSURD, Steve.

    • At 21/8/06 4:11 AM, Blogger Roya said…

      AJ, I think steve forgets that Islam has been there for 1400 years and all this killing and stoning and choping hands off have been there BEFORE US had even existed.

      Iranian women wore Barqa before Reza Shah band it. Women (50% of the population) were not counted as equal human beings but they are women I guess. They don't count for steve.

      Star, the vidio was very depressing, I hope people can earn from this and see the TRUE nature of Islam and religion in general.

    • At 21/8/06 4:23 AM, Blogger Roya said…

      Muslims and they sucker friends (like steve) are very willing to call Israeli actions as AGGRESSION but when it comes to muslims AGGRESSION even towards their fellow believers they stay silent.

      Why doesn't steve talk about the palestinian situation in lebanon or the kurds who are being oppressed, killed (200 000 in Iraq and 10-20 000 in iran, and even more in turkey) and tortured, or palestinians who are killed by their fellow plestinians for treason, or women (AGAIN ITS 50% of the POPULATION) who are being oppressed by their male MUSLIM family members?

    • At 21/8/06 4:42 AM, Blogger Bacon Eating Atheist Jew said…

      I'm still waiting for Steve to do a post on Darfur:)

      At least some people are posting about it.

    • At 21/8/06 6:49 AM, Blogger Jordan said…

      Its easy to blame Islamic ideology and the Arab honor code for the problems in the Islamic world.

      Its easy to ask people to be responsible for creating productive knowledge based economies as Hindus, Budhist, and Christians have accomplished.

      Its easy to point to a culture of extreme male-supremecy that forces women into illeteracy, submission, rape, and violence.

      Its easy to point to a flawed education system that uses the Protocols of Zion and the Quran/Hadith to teach hatred for the "Other" rather than focus on math and science which brings prosperity.

      But in the end, its EVEN EASIER to blame the Jews and Americans... so lets just do that! :)

    • At 21/8/06 8:07 AM, Blogger Stardust1954 said…

      Steve, like I have stated above, it is interesting how many people living in a free society romantically defend and make excuses for radical islamists, tyrants, and terrorists while in the safety and protection of their FREE nations or societies.

      While teaching about other cultures and diversity is a good thing, on the other hand university and college professors have taken this to an extreme in trying to make tyrants and terrorists into some kind of oppressed and persecuted "heroes" while making the U.S look like the big bad monster. They promote this kind of romanticism from the safety and confines of a classroom most have never left. (gone directly from being a student to teacher) They have only lived in the confines of academia. I was nearly sucked into this myself in an ethics class when I was going back to school to finish my Bachelor's degree in my 30s.

      However, I took a step back to conside ALL sides...yes, the U.S meddles much too often and is not guilt-free...however, what are we to do? Wait until these tyrants and terrorists come knocking at our door and allow them to blow up our buildings and attack us on our soil?

      If our government tries to prevent problems, they are condemned, if they do nothing and we are attacked like on 911 people cry that our government didn't protect us. What is it you want, Steve? Just sit here and believe everyone in the world will be nice to us and peaceful if we just leave them alone? That is fantasy thinking.

      Islam is a dangerous religion. "True believers" want infidels to DIE. It is written in their holy book. It is their ultimate goal. Convert...or die. Read the Quran, Steve. They are not satisfied to just believe in peace...they, like the xians are on a mission to "convert"...only xians will "pray" for you and leave judgement to gawd, but even the most mild muslim believes that those who reject Islam should die and not wait for gawd to do it...they want to expedite you on your journey to hell.

      Personally, if I had to choose a side, I would choose our side...the side of freedom. To side with those who chop off innocent people's heads, stone people to death for no good reason and kill in the name of a great sky daddy mission is not logical.

    • At 21/8/06 8:16 AM, Blogger Stardust1954 said…

      Another point . . . When I went back to the university again to finish my Masters in 2000, I could clearly see the far radical leftist propaganda being promoted in the university setting. My son is seeing it now at a different university, and my daughter at another.

      Fortunately they have listened to us to analyze all sides of an issue and not just one that their professors spew forth.

      While poverty is a problem in the middle east and many other nations, a part of the problem too many radical leftists ignore is the fact that the religion of islam is a huge part of the problem as to why these people cannot progress and prosper.

    • At 21/8/06 8:27 AM, Blogger Roya said…

      Star, I totally agree with you, especially on the university issue. My university for one, has been hijacked by the extreme left groups and I hate that.

      I have stopped calling myself a left leaning student and now I call myself a liberal.

      We have to distiguish ourselves from them somehow. :)

    • At 21/8/06 9:28 AM, Blogger Bacon Eating Atheist Jew said…

      Steve's university is one of the worst offenders when it comes to teaching what Stardust is talking about.

    • At 21/8/06 10:52 PM, Blogger Steve said…

      This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    • At 21/8/06 10:53 PM, Blogger Steve said…

      This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    • At 21/8/06 11:04 PM, Blogger Steve said…

      I have elected to spare you, Stardust, of my original replies. Needless to say, I believe you misapply the concept of freedom to suppress the rights of Muslims, and to avoid dealing with the unfortunate reality that the US is supporting most of the regimes you blame for stoning women.

      If you REALLY oppose the stoning of women, you would call upon the US to stop supporting Musharraf in Pakistan, or the Saudi Regime, or Mubarak in Egypt for not doing more to prevent female genital mutilation.

      And lastly, calling things radical leftist ideologies is a typical McCarthy-style attack which is basically an adhominem. If you don't like what someone says, argue against it, but labeling it, and hoping the label will convince people its stupid, is a logical fallacy. Then again, Bacon and team love those things so maybe it just might work.

    • At 22/8/06 2:15 AM, Blogger Roya said…

      "I have elected to spare you, Stardust, of my original replies."

      LMAO! You had nothing to say in reply to THEIR QUESTIONS. So keep pretending that you do. :)

      "If you REALLY oppose the stoning of women, you would call upon the US to stop supporting Musharraf in Pakistan, or the Saudi Regime, or Mubarak in Egypt for not doing more to prevent female genital mutilation."

      Pakistan has Nuk and the only reason they are not using it against Israel or other Infadels is because of Musharraf. I hate to think of the day that he no longer is in power. And what do you expect him to do? The majority of their population consists of FANATIC MUSLIMS. Their government tried to give women same inheritance right but women in their thousands protested.

      Their people all want a taliban style regime. All these countries could be in much worse situations if their people had their way.

      These leaders that you talk about are the ones that have made the possibility of a small rights that women can have under their islamic law to exist. Eg, the right to study. If their people (even some women) had their way, even this right would have been taken away.

    • At 22/8/06 5:21 AM, Blogger Stardust1954 said…

      Steve - You haven't spared me anything. They are only your words and opinions. You must be pissed off because I hit the nail on the head about college professors and people who only find fault with the U.S.A. while hiding behind it's protection and freedoms.

      I am a teacher and I know how the universities and colleges are no longer places for critical and independent thought. Many "real" professors are frustrated by this. Many students are frustrated by "proseltyzing" of its own kind that occurs in many classrooms by professors on soapboxes promoting their own political agenda to young minds -- most of whom have been trained to respect authority and believe whatever crap a teacher says. And gawd forbid that one of these professors are "challenged" by a student who may disagree with them, especially by an older student like I was who has actually experienced life and has seen history repeat itself. All too often, if a student disagrees, their grade suffers. I know people this has happened to, and the appeals process is a joke.

      And this DOES have much to do with the discussion at hand because you are not even listening to or considering what Roya is saying from FIRST HAND experience and knowledge.

      Just one question - what would you have done differently if you had the power to change things of the past? What is it you want, Steve? Do you really believe that if we just sit here and don't interfere in the affairs of other nations that the world will be nice to us and peaceful if we just leave them alone? Do you really believe that people will stop committing atrocities if we just politely ask them "please stop abusing and mutilating your women"? And if not, then how do we get them to stop stoning, mutilating, killing each other, etc? What are your superior and wonderful solutions? Go and fight alongside Hezbollah, etc?

    • At 22/8/06 7:46 AM, Blogger Watcher said…


      You said "it seems people are afraid to think of the silly ABSURD possibility that the US has in any way fueled militant Islam."

      Here's a little history lesson for you:

      From Christopher Hitchens book on Jefferson:

      "America's two main diplomats at the time were John Adams in London and Jefferson in Paris. Together they called upon Ambassador Abdrahaman, the envoy of Tripoli in London, in March 1786. This dignitary mentioned a tariff of three payments - for the ransom of slaves and hostages, for cheap terms of temporary peace and for more costly terms of "perpetual peace". He did not forget to add his own commission as a percentage. Adams and Jefferson asked to know by what right he was exacting these levies. The US had never menaced or quarreled with any of the Muslim powers. As Jefferson later reported to the State Department and Congress, "The Ambassador answered us that it was founded on the Laws of their Prophet, that it was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as Prisoners".

      The story dates back to 1786. So yeah, Steve, tell us again how it's all a US fault and how Islam is not responsible for it.


      Great posts. ;-)

    • At 22/8/06 9:04 AM, Blogger Steve said…

      "You haven't spared me anything"

      You didn't read my first reply :)

      Nevertheless, I don't see how you can jump on the silly "Universities are preventing challenges to their thinking" bullshit. I have challenged professors from Communists to pseudo-Nazi's, and never been punished for it. Maybe YOU didn't challenge your profressors, and thats why you think the way you do. If so, apology accepted.

      Only somebody who lives in an academic bubble thinks students are any worse off than the rest of the population in terms of being brainwashed. If students aren't capable of questioning and thinking for themselves, they shouldn't be in school, or should go to vocational school.

      The problem is not teachers who have biases (called human nature) its students who aren't capable of questioning their teachers, just like members of society like you can't question your leaders.

      So if anything, I'd say you are the problem.

      "What are your superior and wonderful solutions? "

      My solution? How about not adding fuel to the fire. You don't impoverish their societies, you don't do it by making them look like hero's to the Lebanese you don't do it by refusing to have any political dialogue with militants.

      Here's a newsflash Stardust, you could search every home in Lebanon and only get 5% of the terrorists, and even if you managed to get 100% of them, what about their brothers and sisters?

      Political and diplomatic solutions are the ONLY feasible way to end conflict. Your "war=peace" bullshit has been tried many times before.

      There is nothing liberating about bombs, so stop peddling your warmongering as some form of humanitarianism.

      watcher - great history lesson. The only problem with your thesis is you assume the Empire of the Ottoman's is the same thing as a religion. In fact, the Turks, who were at the center of the Ottoman Empire, are actually considered allies/friends of Israel today, and some of the most progressive and european-oriented Muslims in the Middle East.

      Maybe you should go back to the books?

    • At 22/8/06 1:11 PM, Blogger Jordan said…

      Steve - "Political and diplomatic solutions are the ONLY feasible way to end conflict. Your "war=peace" bullshit has been tried many times before."

      That statement is the EXACT opposite of what history has taught us. From the horrible cultures of Germany and Japan of WWII to slavery in America, it took the unconditional surrender to end the ideas that create conflict.

      This option is no longer acceptable as the death toll is very high, and since communist and Islamists are so weak and pathetic and our commitment to our own ideology is destroyed through moral relativism, we do not have the heart to defeat them. We would rather a long and painful cold war until an atrociaty occurs large enough to justify attacking the real issue... Islamic political, economic, and social ideology.

      The commentators here make a great point. When push comes to shove, all the horrible acts against women, gays, etc.. in the Islamic world existed prior to America/Israel and there is no reason to believe the destruction of these countries would make any difference either way.

      Futhermore, when given the choice, the majority of citizens in the Islamic world prefer this horrible state of extreme male-supremecy. We act as if we can save Iraq from becoming a fundementalist hell-hole. We cannot. I hate to say it, but Afganistan is gone as well.

      For all the talk of our support for horrible dictators it really does not make a difference. The vast majority of the time, Islamic countries will be ruled by secular brutal dictators or Islamic fundementalist nutbars of their own choosing.

      What I find most sickening is our commitment to blame Jews and Americans for Islamic culture to ironically, avoid racism. It dehumanizes Muslims and non-Muslims alike.

    • At 22/8/06 2:55 PM, Blogger Bacon Eating Atheist Jew said…

      Steve, Jefferson was clearly talking about Muslims as a religion and not the Ottoman Empire. No matter how much you want to spin it, you just look stupider each day. Jefferson was clearly blaming the Koran.

    • At 22/8/06 5:12 PM, Blogger Watcher said…


      You said: "watcher - great history lesson. The only problem with your thesis is you assume the Empire of the Ottoman's is the same thing as a religion."

      No, I don't assume that, and nowhere in my post did I give any indication that I do.

      Here's the quote for you again: "The Ambassador answered us that it was founded on the Laws of their Prophet, that it was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as Prisoners".

      It can't be any clearer than that - Koran is the Muslim terrorism manual.

    • At 23/8/06 12:19 AM, Blogger Steve said…

      Jordan - "What I find most sickening is our commitment to blame Jews and Americans for Islamic culture to ironically, avoid racism."

      FULL STOP. I have NEVER attacked Jews once, nor have I attacked Americans. I am an American. Why would I attack myself? I attacked US foreign policy, as well as Israeli foreign policy. Be clear about what you disagree with me on. I won't let you or any of your buddies maneuver me into one of your little anti-semitic traps.

      I've argued with Muslims more than anybody here but you're all too self-absorded to understand the difference between disagreeing with someone and hating them. I hate child molesters, but I understand certain systemic factors like abuse, which help create them.

      This line about that dehumanizing them is bullshit. How does it humanize to consider them part of a vast evil ideology?

      watcher - Firstly, its properly spelled "Qur'an," Koran does not emphasize the inflection in the Arabic word properly.

      Secondly, your post is misleading because the Ottoman's were considered rather progressive by western standards and in fact had open treaties with many European nations.

      Pretty funny to have all those relationships with infidels, wouldn't you say?

    • At 23/8/06 8:28 AM, Blogger Jordan said…

      Your EXACT WORDS Steven:

      "In my view, Israel bears most of the blame for the creation and expansion of militant Islam."

      Can you not find the exact same jew-hating line at or Storm Front?

      Blaming Jews, no excuse me... blaming a country that is home to the Jews, for people getting killed in Thailand, Phillapines, Nigeria, France, Afganistan all in the name in Islam!! Its sick Steven.

      As for your standing up to Islamic/socialist inspired Jew-hatred, have you read your own blog lately?

      You have argued with pretty much ever Israeli supporter (some deserving it) but you are too much of a coward to stand up to BDE and bernarda's jew hatred even once! Even when BDE makes a death threat you say nothing.

      Is there any type of jew-hatred on your blog that you will stand up to?

    • At 24/8/06 7:26 AM, Blogger Watcher said…


      I see you keep ignoring the fact that Jefferson and Adams were told by the envoy of Tripoli "that it was founded on the Laws of their Prophet, that it was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as Prisoners" regardless of whether or not you consider Ottomans progressive.

      As for the "Koran", don't be so anal about it, I used the spelling that was provided in the quote. Regardless of how it is spelled or whether or not Ottomans were progressive, it doesn't change the meaning of the Tripoli's envoy's words.

      "Pretty funny to have all those relationships with infidels, wouldn't you say?"

      What I do find funny is that you changed the subject from "Muslim militancy is America's fault" to progressivness of Ottomans and how to properly spell "Qur'an". It was always Islam to strike first from the very time it came into being. Islam is the only religion that commands its followers "Fight and slay the Unbelievers wherever ye find them. Seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem of war." {Qur'an, Sura 9:5)

      It can't get any clearer than that.

    • At 24/8/06 8:22 PM, Blogger Stardust1954 said…

      My goodness Steve, I must have struck a nerve with you about academia. What a defensive rant!

      Political and diplomatic solutions are the ONLY feasible way to end conflict. Your "war=peace" bullshit has been tried many times before.

      Steve, could you possibly elaborate with what these political and diplomatic solutions might be in order to bring about a peaceful solution to Iraq and the problems of the world? For that matter, I think the world would gladly make you a hero if you have such infinite and divine insight and wisdom which would result in peace.

    • At 24/8/06 8:49 PM, Blogger Chad Kitching said…

      "Instead, treat them like this: tear down their altars, smash their standing-stones, cut down their sacred poles and burn their idols. For you are a people consecrated to Yahweh your God; of all the peoples on earth, you have been chosen by Yahweh your God to be his own people." - Deuteronomy 7
      "If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you, offering you some sign or wonder, and the sign or wonder comes about; and if he then says to you, "Let us follow other gods" (hitherto unknown to you) "and serve them", you must not listen to that prophet's words or to that dreamer's dreams.
      That prophet or that dreamer of dreams must be put to death," - Deuteronomy 13
      "All who would not seek the LORD, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman." - 2 Chronicles 15
      "The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open." - Hosea 13

      So, it's not the only one... Just pretty much the only one where there are people still practicing this barbaric practice of slaying nonbelievers. I'm sure some Christian will tell me I'm misinterpreting these passages, but the fact of the matter is, taken absolutely literally, these passages do condone the slaying of nonbelievers.

    • At 24/8/06 9:36 PM, Anonymous Tommykey said…

      Welcome back Roya.

      As an American, I don't want the war in Iraq to go on. I want our troops out of there and to come home.

      Since you are Kurdish, I can understand your feelings on this topic on a personal level. If a peaceful and at least de facto independent Kurdish state can take hold and prosper, then at least something decent will have been salvaged from this mess.

      As an aside, wasn't Saladin a Kurd?

    • At 24/8/06 10:50 PM, Blogger Roya said…

      Yes tommykey, he was. :(

      In respect to Iraq, who knows how many would have died in the hands of Saddam's sons if they came to power. Even if people of Iraq had been able to get ride of them, there still would have been bloodshed in the process. It would have been unavoidable. It is better to happen now then 2 or 3 generations later. My oponion though. I could be wrong.

      I'm no fund of the current US administration and their intentions are not nessecerily good but it is in the interest of humanity to get rid of this barbaric religion which would not have stopped bothering the world after 9/11.

    • At 25/8/06 11:36 AM, Blogger Jason H. Bowden said…

      "Can you not find the exact same jew-hating line at or Storm Front?"

      It is cool to hate the Jews in our universities. I can't tell what kind of socialism they subscribe to-- bolshevism, or national socialism.

      It really doesn't matter. For socialists, with their conspiratorial view of world events, they inevitably hate the Jews. One, if a clique of capitalists is controlling the world, and many of them happen to be Jews, well, they have to connect the dots. Secondly, the Jew symbolizes everything greedy, worldly, materialistic, commercial, mobile, and inauthentic socialists despise.

      Of course, wackademics preach that movements like national socialism were from the right, as if people on the right oppose liberal democracies, support command economics, and support social engineering.

    • At 25/8/06 11:38 AM, Blogger Jason H. Bowden said…

      This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    • At 25/8/06 11:47 AM, Blogger Jason H. Bowden said…


      If you support liberal democracy and secular government in the Middle East, you'd recognize this will take force and bullets.

      Review how Ataturk changed Turkey in a top-down manner before you condemn the Shah. The Shah's government had corruption problems, but at least they weren't stoning women and hanging thousands of homosexuals. The Islamic Revolution in Iran is purely religious-based and has nothing to do with workers' rights or any other stupid, politically correct cause.

      Does the left care about people? Of course not-- if we left Iraq and 1,000,000 died, they'd have a faux liberal grief-off, but wouldn't do anything about the injustice. The *real* injustice, as the left sees it, has to do with one set of people forcing principles on another. Everyone has the right to be different, and no one knows the truth, and anyone who thinks otherwise is the real barbarian. That is how the modern left sees sin.

    • At 26/9/06 12:37 AM, Blogger Ahmad Khalid said…

      Hi Roya,

      You're getting emotional to say that the war on Iraq should go on. Situation in Iraq under Saddam was bad, but isn't it worse now, and getting even worse on daily basis? Do you want more American troops and Iraqi civilian die in vain? I think not. Get deep into the issue, rather than to say that because you're angry at some Islamic fanatics. And if time allows you, study Islam deeply, rather than to listen to Islamic preachers who knows nothing but hatred.

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